POS Tax Removal or Rework

[Xelta 55]

Almost immediately after the community found out about the 7% sales tax through POS, it went into uproar. Staff and onlookers can attest that Help CC got a little bit heated. I think I can speak for the community based on what I have heard from others and from my own thoughts.

As always, this suggestion is an open forum for ideas and thoughts. If you feel personally about this matter, feel free to contribute!

A 7% Tax, Let's Evaluate This: r/HeDidTheMath

• 80b Sale    = 74.4b Received
• 50b Sale    = 46.5b Received
• 25b Sale    = 23.25b Received
• 10b Sale    = 9.3b Received
• 5b Sale      = 4.65b Received
• 1b Sale      = 930m Received
• 500m Sale = 465m Received

Now, it's important to ask "what do these numbers mean" instead of just acknowledging that they are "numbers." For players that aren't wealthy (for this example, we will call 800b-1t "wealthy"), this tax is a killer for low-wealth income. I think that for me to sell 600m in keys and only receive 558m is a bit silly; I understand the point of the tax though. I know the intended goal was to help the economy, and it will - in theory. The problem with the economy doesn't lie with the lowly sellers of stone keys and magic knives. The real and inherently visible problem with the economy lies within the fact that 80% of the wealth in-game is held by an estimated 10-20 players. To me, this should be addressed before implementing a sales tax.

The following is what I observed from community members via Help CC.

• Make the Tax go towards something
  • Lottery
  • Giveaway
  • Something Tangible, so we know it's "not just being taken for no reason"
• Remove the Tax
• Lower the Tax
• Classify Wealth-Based Tax System

Again, not all of these are my ideas, but this post is rather a culmination of the community's thoughts as observed through a Help CC Rant Session.

Any and all feedback is welcomed!

[Sleepinwmy9 22]

Agreed, tax can definitely hurt lower income players, and even turn them off to the server.

[Mak3 108]

Just get rid of the tax, affects the poorer players more. It's the amount of items in the game that's the problem not the cash. 

[Angry Beaver 1]

exactly I kind of get the point of you guys adding the tax. but like in life we pay taxes for benefits.... the money should go towards something to benefit the players (dp, well, lotto.) theres no point on robbing us of our money if its going nowhere.

[Xelta 55]

Just now, Sleepinwmy9 said:

Agreed, tax can definitely hurt lower income players, and even turn them off to the server.

Thank you for the feedback! I definitely agree!

Just now, Mak3 said:

Just get rid of the tax, affects the poorer players more. It's the amount of items in the game that's the problem not the cash. 

Agreed; it's not item prices that are the problems, it's those who set  the item prices because they hold insane amounts of said item and ultimately have push/pull over the entire economy. Thanks for the feedback!

[Xelta 55]

1 minute ago, Angry Beaver said:

exactly I kind of get the point of you guys adding the tax. but like in life we pay taxes for benefits.... the money should go towards something to benefit the players (dp, well, lotto.) theres no point on robbing us of our money if its going nowhere.

Agreed! If lower-income players are going to be hurt, we at least should implement a bounce-back or some kind of possibility for them to re-obtain the wealth they're being stripped of via Taxes. Thanks for taking the time to give some feedback!

[Mojo Arts 2]

I agree, The tax is excessive. 

This hurts the non donor more than anything. Slaving hours grinding to get a few bils only for the tax to take it.

I understand the concept of it and how it should work but in reality it's just forcing non donors hands to donate based on them constantly being poor due to taxes.

 

 

Maybe I'm wrong who knows.

[Charmie 88]

The problem is not items it's cash for every drop party every cows every double loot theres more and more items in the game and not enough cash unless you're one of the top 10 people who has 1b scrolls stacked to the high heavens but the tax is not helping, there needs to be more on an incentive to burn or sink items into something else 

[Xelta 55]

Just now, Mojo Arts said:

I agree, The tax is excessive. 

This hurts the non donor more than anything. Slaving hours grinding to get a few bils only for the tax to take it.

I understand the concept of it and how it should work but in reality it's just forcing non donors hands to donate based on them constantly being poor due to taxes.

 

 

Maybe I'm wrong who knows.

Thank you! This is a point we are trying to get across thank you for taking the time to leave feedback!

[Xelta 55]

Just now, Charmie said:

The problem is not items it's cash for every drop party every cows every double loot theres more and more items in the game and not enough cash unless you're one of the top 10 people who has 1b scrolls stacked to the high heavens but the tax is not helping, there needs to be more on an incentive to burn or sink items into something else 

This as well! Thank you for the feedback!

[Psilonoid 2]

I understand the owners want to keep the server active so they can keep making money but the surprise new tax is just going to hurt them.

-owners should implement update polls as osrs does

-Tax staking only, remove FP and make staking in a controlled area that forces the tax like OSRS duel arena

- If there's too many items in game, Turn off safe deaths! No items leave the game if no one dies. Make it a 5-10 minute timer.

- POS is going to be avoided by most players now. Everyone will be swarming CC, yell, forums and discord

-As mentioned, if tax is going to remain put the money into the lottery or drop parties.

-This server is heavily based on making money. Once you have bis every slot there's not much to do. I've seen many people quit as a result.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Psilonoid

[Sezy 61]

In my opinion it should be removed from pos. We should have an automated flower poker npc. How this works, no idea. but basically it looks like a duel arena screen, you can put cash or items. I know items are going to be annoying to figure out. my solution to putting items for gamble is you can put value for the items. this way they can be taxed. What if they cannot afford the tax to withdraw the items? Make the npc have a chest, where he stores your items, until you can pay the tax money to take them out. (cash obviously wouldnt go in.) This would also solve scamming. the idea isnt 100, but i think it would work after some recommendations / tweaks. 

 

 

[Xelta 55]

5 minutes ago, Psilonoid said:

I understand the owners want to keep the server active so they can keep making money but the surprise new tax is just going to hurt them.

I feel the staff are not at all forthcoming with their decisions that alters the server. Much like OSRS, it's the players that keep this server alive, so polling decisions beforehand is the way to go. Without us the server doesn't exist.

With that being said:

-Tax staking only, remove FP and make staking in a controlled area that forces the tax like OSRS duel arena

- If there's too many items in game, Turn off safe deaths! No items leave the game if no one dies. Make it a 5-10 minute timer.

- POS is going to be avoided by most players now. Everyone will be swarming CC, yell, forums and discord

-As mentioned, if tax is going to remain put the money into the lottery or drop parties.

I think this is a harsh approach to the view, but you're completely entitled to your opinion. My opinion on the whole thought process is that it wasn't done with ill-intentions, I just think it could have been thought through better before implementation. Nonetheless, thank you for taking time to leave feedback!

4 minutes ago, sezy said:

In my opinion it should be removed from pos. We should have an automated flower poker npc. How this works, no idea. but basically it looks like a duel arena screen, you can put cash or items. I know items are going to be annoying to figure out. my solution to putting items for gamble is you can put value for the items. this way they can be taxed. What if they cannot afford the tax to withdraw the items? Make the npc have a chest, where he stores your items, until you can pay the tax money to take them out. (cash obviously wouldnt go in.) This would also solve scamming. the idea isnt 100, but i think it would work after some recommendations / tweaks. 

 

 

1000000% agree, TAX THE GAMBLING! No need for 30t pots to go unchecked and non-donors to lose bills while trying to grind for even mid-tier items / armor. +1,000,000

[Charmie 88]

9 minutes ago, sezy said:

In my opinion it should be removed from pos. We should have an automated flower poker npc. How this works, no idea. but basically it looks like a duel arena screen, you can put cash or items. I know items are going to be annoying to figure out. my solution to putting items for gamble is you can put value for the items. this way they can be taxed. What if they cannot afford the tax to withdraw the items? Make the npc have a chest, where he stores your items, until you can pay the tax money to take them out. (cash obviously wouldnt go in.) This would also solve scamming. the idea isnt 100, but i think it would work after some recommendations / tweaks. 

 

 

theres a couple of servers with automatic fp, and its kinda fun, not naming any servers of course, but i agree with everything here tax fp, but the chest isit a tax per item or per time you open the chest how many can be stored in there as i can see people abusing it as well 

[Psilonoid 2]

Quote

I think this is a harsh approach to the view, but you're completely entitled to your opinion. My opinion on the whole thought process is that it wasn't done with ill-intentions, I just think it could have been thought through better before implementation. Nonetheless, thank you for taking time to leave feedback! 

I understand it's harsh but i'm not one to beat around the bush and avoid saying what needs to be said. I'd like to see owners interact with the community more. They're lucky to be in the position they are. 

The server has went from 300+ active players to 200 +/- in less than two weeks. 

But yes, Tax staking for sure. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Psilonoid

[Sezy 61]

1 hour ago, Psilonoid said:

I understand it's harsh but i'm not one to beat around the bush and avoid saying what needs to be said. I rarely see the owners engaging with the community, they aren't grateful at all about this server. 

The server has went from 300+ active players to 200 +/- in less than two weeks. It's pretty clear they're worrying.

But yes, Tax staking for sure. 

Two of the owners work on behind the scenes, and kev has been on everyday for last two weeks for at minimum 8 hours lol. Not to mention this is kind of situational bias. Two weeks ago, everyone was on mando quarantine. during the two weeks, a lot of places started opening back up, uni restarted. 

[Xelta 55]

1 hour ago, Bernard said:

Yea pos tax needs to go rather a tax on gamblers would be more ideal.

Thanks for taking time to provide feedback! This is what I was thinking, along with @ sezy !

1 hour ago, sezy said:

Two of the owners work on behind the scenes, and kev has been on everyday for last two weeks for at minimum 8 hours lol. Not to mention this is kind of situational bias. Two weeks ago, everyone was on mando quarantine. during the two weeks, a lot of places started opening back up, uni restarted. 

This. Lots of things are in flux right now and we are living in a time that none of us have ever had to experience before. The past two weeks has been rough, as well as the past 3-4 months.

[Deadeye 1]

one of if not the dumbest idea i have seen yet. its not going to "help the community" it is going to make the pos become less active and or make them sell for higher price to null the taxes cost. -1 for who thought of this. 

[Stormz 46]

Personally the tax idea in my opinion is a good, however I would’ve atleast upped the gold drops from bosses etc, as we are lacking Gold in the economy as it is, or set the tax on items over a certain threshold, so the lower income players don’t lose out, for example, 7% tax on any thing over 1-2b, and if anything reaches 100b+ tax at 10% etc. 
 

that’s my thoughts however. I may receive some negative comments but it’s an idea.

[KingTwix 13]

Disagree. The POS is a convenient way to sell items, and tax is a much needed gold sink for this weird economy. If one does not want to pay the tax, PM the player for a private sale. 

A lower percent is feasible, or a flat rate tax (or even only a percent above x price), but i believe the gold sink is a much needed addition. Wealth should not be randomly redistributed when so much is brought back in to the economy every day.

[30th May 7]

It's not just the tax that's the problem..
The only other problem i can think of is they isn't many drops that are worth alot to new players.
D kites etc don't sell and are just junk, Some boosts to the drop tables are needed.

[Stormz 46]

9 hours ago, 30th May said:

It's not just the tax that's the problem..
The only other problem i can think of is they isn't many drops that are worth alot to new players.
D kites etc don't sell and are just junk, Some boosts to the drop tables are needed.

Whoa thats disrespect to the Dkites dude! I’ve been buying them out haha!! 😂

[Mak3 108]

17 hours ago, 30th May said:

It's not just the tax that's the problem..
The only other problem i can think of is they isn't many drops that are worth alot to new players.
D kites etc don't sell and are just junk, Some boosts to the drop tables are needed.

The value of the drops aren't worth anything cause of the drop rate they have inside boxes. Boxes are opened far too frequently making these type of item "Junk"

This is another reason why you see everyone only camping the same NPC/Bosses, As they hardly drop items mainly cash or boxes.

[Mak3 108]

19 hours ago, KingTwix said:

Disagree. The POS is a convenient way to sell items, and tax is a much needed gold sink for this weird economy. If one does not want to pay the tax, PM the player for a private sale. 

A lower percent is feasible, or a flat rate tax (or even only a percent above x price), but i believe the gold sink is a much needed addition. Wealth should not be randomly redistributed when so much is brought back in to the economy every day.

The tax on the POS should have been included months ago when there was a influx in cash, This was when SOV X was going for nearly 1T. Now there is hardly any cash left, gamblers hoarding/leaving main reasons. Therefore the current tax will only effect the lower tiered people who struggle to make cash. The rich aren't going to use the POS.

The item to cash ratio is terrible... That's why the POS gets flooded with the low tiered items worth less than a couple of B (The same items the lower tiered players will be selling) 

[Xelta 55]

3 hours ago, Mak3 said:

The tax on the POS should have been included months ago when there was a influx in cash, This was when SOV X was going for nearly 1T. Now there is hardly any cash left, gamblers hoarding/leaving main reasons. Therefore the current tax will only effect the lower tiered people who struggle to make cash. The rich aren't going to use the POS.

The item to cash ratio is terrible... That's why the POS gets flooded with the low tiered items worth less than a couple of B (The same items the lower tiered players will be selling) 

T H I S x1,000,000. Honestly, I'm not going to name a name, but I tried buying a SANG X for 4 days. The ONLY person even considering selling to me beat around the bush a lot and ultimately insulted me and tried to get me to FP my bank for it as opposed to just selling it to me. They wanted to keep the Sang X for FP fodder. THIS is the problem with the economy. I would consider myself "low-tier" - I find it reasonably difficult to progress financially on this server. Perfect example is I legitimately had to overpay because the only for-sale Sang X in the eco over the past week was a precious gambler's flower toy.